I moderate a Yahoo EGroup for members who studied in King Edward VII School Taiping. We call each other "Tiger" because of the school emblem.
Member age ranges from the early twenties to mid-eighties and obviously spans generations; from the pre-WWII generation to the baby boomers, through Generation X and now Generation Y. The common factor was the alma mater and of course also the idyllic town of Taiping.
I am reproducing here a series of exchanges from the EGroup that started with this first one by Tiger Manjit Singh (a fifty-something year old lawyer) entitled, "British Humour.....! !(politically very incorrect... .)"
Police in London have found a bomb outside a mosque..They've told the public not to panic as they've managed to push it inside.
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Two Asian heroin addicts have injected themselves with curry powder by mistake - both are in intensive care...One has a dodgy tikka and the other one is in a korma.
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During last night's high winds an African family were killed by a falling tree.A spokesman for the Birmingham City Council said 'We didn't even know they were living up there'.
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Jamaican minorities in the UK have complained that there is not enough television shows with minorities in mind, so Crimewatch is being shown 5 times a week now.
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I just saw that Harry Potter film. A bit unrealistic if you ask me. I mean, a ginger haired kid, with two friends?
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I had a mate who was suicidal. He was really depressed, so I pushed him in front of a steam train. He was chuffed to bits.
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I was reading in the paper today about this dwarf that got pick pocketed.How could anyone stoop so low?
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I was walking down the road when I saw an Afghan bloke standing on a fifth floor balcony shaking a carpet.I shouted up to him, "What's up Abdul, won't it start?"
This elicited a response from a twenty-something who is apparently a Sumatra qualified medical doctor, Tiger Fazil as follows:
Dear manjit,
i'm really grateful if you can avoid from made any funny/humor regarding the HOLY MOSQUE/ISLAMThank you so much for your cooperation
Fazil
As moderator of the EGroup I was obliged to intervene and I included a comment from a seventy-something Tiger Mike at the latter's request.
Hi Tiger Fazli,
Your concern is noted. To set things in perspective, I cannot say for sure Tiger Manjit did not intentionally post that because he is a bigot; if he did, then he has his own issues. However, his title did state the contents of his post was politically incorrect. Personally I hardly think he was insulting the mosque or Islam for that matter. If anything his was a joke about over-zealous followers and tendency of people to stereotype minorities and others of different ilk. For me, I think he posted the jokes to tickle the funny bone.
While on the subject, Tiger Putra Mike would like share something from his Old Putra (RMC) eGroup which is worth a discourse here. Everyone here has a right to membantah postings that they find personally revolting but one to the reasons we have this interactive Tiger community is to promote constructive discourse. While not all of us are as eloquent to present our views, it would be nice (or even educational) if we each try to elaborate further our views rather risk appearing pertinacious and seemingly a priori. Your vocation as a doctor is respected as you are by no means a plebeian.
The following is from Tiger Putra Mike. I hope you can engage him as Muz did with Fabian on KC Heah’s “Dogs and Pigs thingy:
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Dear KS,
Let's see what Tiger Fazil Ahmad has to say on my posting? Please upload on your elist, at your pleasure.
Hi OP Shazly Khan,
Unfortunately, it was not my original thinking. I wish that I have that perspicacity. In 2002, I read, Dr. Karen Armstrong, " The Battle for God, a History of Fundamentalism" Ballantine Books, 2002. (Pse see attachment) Armstrong who is a great religious scholar, wrote at great length on mythos vis-a-vis logos. This book has been banned in Malaysia for some incredible reasons although the book is pro-Islam. Somebody in the Censorship Board perhaps could not understand English. Despite, some institution invited Armstrong to give a series of lectures which many OPs and I attended. Dr. M. and many VIPs were there too. You can order her book from amazon.com. In any case, am happy to courier service to your home my copy at the drop of my kopiah!! It will help me not to write an extended essay.
Let me summarize as short as possible Armstrong's views to entice you into going further as a typical Budak-Boy:
The people of the past were (more or less) like us, but in fact their spiritual lives were rather different. In particular, they evolved two ways of thinking, speaking, and acquiring knowledge, which in the devotional language, scholars have called mythos and logos. Myth was not concerned with practical matters, but with meaning. The mythos of a society provided people with a context that made sense of their day-to-day lives; it directed their attention to the eternal and the universal. It was also rooted in what we call the unconscious mind. The various mythological stories, which were not intended to be taken literally, were an ancient form of psychology.
Myth could not be demonstrated by rational proof; its insights were more intuitive, similar to those of art, music, poetry, or sculpture.Logos was the rational, pragmatic, and scientific thought that enabled men and women to function well in the world. The West may have lost the sense of mythos today, but the Westerners are very familiar with logos, which is the basis of their society. Unlike myth, logos must relate exactly to facts and correspond to external realities if it is to be effective. It must work efficiently in the mundane world. The Westerners use this logical, discursive reasoning when they have to make things happen, get something done, or persuade other people to adopt a particular course of action. Logos is practical. Unlike myth, which looks back to the beginnings and to the foundations, logos forges ahead and tries to find some thing new: to elaborate on old insights, achieve a greater control over our environment, discover something fresh, and invent something novel.
By the 18th century, however, the people of Europe and America had achieved such astonishing success in science and technology that they began to think that logos was the only means to truth and began to discount mythos as false and superstitious. It is also true that the new world they were creating contradicted the dynamic of the old mythical spirituality. Our religious experience in the modern world has changed, and cos of increasing number of people regard scientific rationalism alone as true, they have often tried to turm mythos of their faith into logos. Fundamentalists have also made this attempt. This confusion has led to more problems.
Khan Shahib, namaste,
May I stir you a little? Do you believe in the following?
* The Archangel Gabriel spoke to Mohammed in the cave in Mt. Hira. There was and is no such thing as Gibriel. I can show you what the early Muslims thought Gabriel looked like. with wings turban and all. Mythos!!
* Mohammed was alleged to have ridden Al- Buraq to the moon and to the seven heavens where He met God, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and other prophets. Was it simply a wild imagining?
* Mohammed flew to Jerusalem in a night saw the ramifications of the Town. True or false?
B4 I keluar baris, what if I put it to you that God is a failed hyphothesis. If ther is God at all, God is a She cos females manifest the suffering of humankind!!
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2009/12/17 Mohd SK
Hello Good Morning everyone
OP Mike,
Please, could you share your wisdom and experience to a young father like me and im sure it will also benefit those reading.
Can you elaborate further on what you said earlier regarding the myths - the embellishments of the superstitious propagation of Malay Islam at an early age.
I am interested to understand about this.
Thank you Sir. Much appreciated.
SK
Tiger Fazil replied me as follows:
Please try to understand the others religions rather than to make a ridiculous statements/critics About the Prophet Muhammad's journey...he was assisted by the ALMIGHTY ALLAH SWT...
Anything The God's want it to be, it will be...You can read the meaning of YAASIN verses with it's interpretation in English But please don't behave like some of the Politicians attitude...They tried to become popular by read some of The AL-QURAN verses with it's interpretation, but unfortunately, all that are just for Politics agenda rather than to study the Miracle of The Holy AL-QURANI advice all of you guys...please don't be hesitate to refer to Ustaz Ridhuan Tee Abdullah, uSTAZ Farid Ravi & Tan Sri Harussani for further better explanation about ISLAM...Thank You
Regards,
Dr Fazil Ahmad(please don't call me Tiger anymore)
My subsequent reply:
Fazil, if you do not want to be referred to as a Tiger, it is better you unsubscribe. This is no place for you.
KS
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Another doctor now residing in Australia, fifty year old Tiger Chin replied Fazil:
Dear Dr Fazil Ahmad,
Get real and start living in the real world. Your infantile response to seemingly innocent postings betrays how closed your mind is.
Unfortunately, I have to bring myself down to your level, to respond to your bigoted postings. You are a disgrace to your religion with your intolerance.
How would you expect us to respect your religion if you can't even engage us in an intellectual discussion?
In case this causes any misunderstanding about my position, I would like to point out that I have no problems with Muslim and Islam. In fact 3 of my family members are Muslims, and I have many good Muslims friends. :)
TIGER Chin
(Don't call me Dr - I have no problems with my self esteem)
Fazil's replies:
Thank you Tiger Chin
As mentioned earlier Everybody have their own ideas to be share
Please learn to respect the others Religions So that, we can live harmony ever after in this country
I've never heard any Moslems insulted Christians, Hindus, Buddhist, etc..Because we have been taught by our Prophet, to respect all the others Religions...I would be very grateful if anyone can unsubscribe me from this Group if you think that's better
Thank you again
Fazil Ahmad
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THANK YOU KS CHEAH
I DON'T WANT TO BE CALLED A TIGER AS I AM A HUMAN BEING...SO JUST DO IT...AND LEARN TO RESPECT THE OTHERS
DON'T BE ULTRA KIASU
THANK YOU
Things were warming up. My reply:
Fazil,
A bunch of us are trying to right certain things in the alma mater. I must say you and your bigotry and shallow understanding of human relations are the personification of somethings wrong with KEVII today. My sympathies go to you as a victim of a system that has re-created the kind of mentality that belongs to the Dark Ages. You do not know how to engage constructively and that is an obvious reflection of your hidebound mentality. No one is taken by your sweet "thank yous" and "pleases" that you willfully use to mask your bigotry with false civility. Fazil, there is no point being a good Muslim if you cannot even be a decent human being.
No I won't unsubscribe you; that would only lower me to your level of selfish intolerance. You go ahead and unsubscribe yourself or you learn to engage instead of just making ridiculous demands.
KS
P/S
I honestly think you do not know the meaning and connotation of the word "kiasu" because if you did, you would know it describes you to the "T"
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Fazil's reply:
THANK YOU CHEAH
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My reply:
You are always welcome Fazil.
KS
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Tiger Chin's reply:
"I've never heard any Moslems insulted Christians, Hindus, Buddhist, etc..Because we have been taught by our Prophet, to respect all the others Religions..."
Dear Dr Fazil,
Thank you for your kind reply.
I wonder which planet that you live on. Here on planet Earth, the Muslims and the Christians have been hurling insults at each other for centuries. In case you are not aware, the misguided Taliban have demolished century-old Buddhist statues in Afghanistan and Mr Amorosi has killed 202 innocent people of all races & religion in Bali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings) - just to name a few.
I would accept the argument that TRUE Muslims will not insult other religions. There is nothing wrong with the religion. It is some of the narrow minded followers. It is the same with other religions. Christians, Buddhists, Hindus have all done injustice to their religions as well.
Yes, we should all respect each other's religion. Similarly, we should all respect a person's right to voice an opinion. Giving an opinion on Islam does not mean that that one is insulting your religion. A great religion like Islam would withstand all scrutiny, so why are you upset when people challenge it?
I am sure you are a good bloke and a good doctor. Learn to relax and enjoy life.
Cheers mate,
Tiger Chin
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You can draw your own conclusions...
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